[Intro music plays]
KIMBERLY: Hello! And welcome to Hoo's At The Writing Center! I'm Kimberly
ELENA: I'm Elena
KARISSA: And I'm Karissa
KIMBERLY: And happy dead week! [Laughs] Uh, since this week can be stressful for a lot of students - including us - uh, we wanted to do something fun and refreshing to give listeners a break from all their studying and paper writing. Uh, so, today, we wanted to talk about a short story, the Paper Menagerie, by Ken Liu. Liu was born in - I'm going to butcher this, so, please, uh, excuse me - Lanzhou, China in 1976. He typically writes in the genre of science-fiction and fantasy. Uh, his other notable works are The Dandelion Dynasty, The Legends of Luke Skywalker, and other short stories like Memories of My Mother and Real Artists. He also participates in a lot of translating work, specifically in Chinese. And has won multiple Hugo Awards. So, there's a link in the episode description if you want to read the story first, which we highly recommend, it's a quick read although fair warning, you might cry a little – I have definitely cried a lot [Laughs] -- um, but for those of you who haven’t read the story, here is a quick summary.
KARISSA: The story starts with the main character, Jack, recalling a memory of his mother. They were sitting together at the kitchen table and Jack was inconsolable and sobbing and really upset about something he can't remember. His mother started to fold old paper into the shape of a tiger, and when she breathed into it, the tiger came to life. Jack was infatuated, and no longer sad, he played with the tiger who became his companion throughout his childhood.
During his childhood, Jack’s mother continued to make him all kinds of animals. They all came to life and played together. However, Jack’s family soon moved to Connecticut, and as Jack got older, it became apparent to him that he was different. None of the other kids looks like him or knew how to speak Chinese like he did. They all had action figures instead of origami to play with and they ate [quote-on-quote] “American food.” Jack started to resent his mother for making him so different. He stopped speaking to her in Chinese and refused to respond to her unless she addressed him in English. He stopped playing with the origami animals that she had made for him.
ELENA: When Jack is in college his mother gets very sick. They tell him that her cancer is beyond any sort of recovery. When visiting her in the hospital, the only thing Jack can think about is returning to school and getting on with his life. Before he leaves, his mother asks one thing: for him to take out the paper animals every year on Qingming, a Chinese Festival for the dead. She died while he was on his flight back to school.
Two years after his mother’s death, on the day of the Qingming festival, Jack thinks of his mother and witnesses his old origami tiger come to life again. The tiger unravels himself to reveal a letter in Chinese written by his mother. He finds someone to translate it, and discovers the story of his mother; how she came to America, and the joy that she felt when he was born. She wrote about her sadness that he did not love his eyes, or his hair, or his heritage, which were all things she had given to him.
The story ends with Jack writing the Chinese character for love, ai, over and over again below her letter before refolding his tiger and bringing it back to life using the creases his mother made to guide him.
KIMBERLY: So, that was just a short summary, but, of course, we can't do the actual text justice, so, we highly encourage you, uh, to read the actual text in the episode description, uh, to read the whole thing. So, the next thing we wanted to do was actually open up a conversation between all three of us since we all got a chance to read it. We actually-- Karissa and I were introduced to this story by Elena and, uh-- So, we didn't have a lot of background information about it, but it was an incredibly moving story and we wanted to open up a discussion just to talk about the sort of themes, and symbols, and messages, and the sort of implications that came with this, uh, story. So, the first thing that we wanted to talk about was, uh, magical realism that Elena brought up.
ELENA: Yeah, so, I just wanted to give a little bit of a background on the genre of this story, which is magical realism. Um, and not to get too English major-y with it, but the story is a really great example of magical realism, which is one of my favorite - and I think not very popularly well-known - genres. Um, we can see here with the origami animals that Jack’s mom makes him and breathes life into. So, magical realism, as described by one of my favorite authors, Isabel Allende, "is a way of seeing in which there is space for the invisible forces that move the world: dreams, legends, myths, emotions, passion, history.” This genre has been embraced particularly by African, Asian, and Latin American literature – just to name a few – and is powerful in that it challenges dominant narratives about how we see the world and ourselves. It also allows for expressions of tradition, collective memory and trauma, as well as collective healing, through storytelling. And another really interesting way that this is expressed through the text is how the text kind of engages with language and the power of multilingualism and different languages and different ways that we can express ourselves through those languages. So, a quote that I found really powerful in the story was when the main character's mom is talking about why it's difficult for her to speak English, not just, like, because the language is hard to learn, but because of something, like, fundamental about how she's expressing herself. She says, "If I say ‘love,’ I feel here.” She pointed to her lips. “If I say ‘ai,’ I feel here.” She put her hand over her heart." And so, I think it's just really-- A really cool story in terms of looking at how the power of language and multilingualism is a medium for connection in different contexts. And what it means to feel a language on your lips versus in your heart and how Liu, the author, is using language and language barriers between loved ones to deepen the impact of this story. And another, um, way that we see this in a lot of stories today is that, particularly, like, Chicano writers, like, Gloria Anzaldua, will write in English and Spanish in their stories, which has a really powerful effect for readers, especially for readers who can read both.
KARISSA: We also wanted to talk about, um, the connection through art that is really relevant in this story and how it pertains to our current situation to now. A couple weeks ago we had an episode about creative writing and that was a really good conversation just to have and it really connected us in ways that we hadn't expected. Um, so similarly in this story, Jack's mom uses the art of origami to really connect with him as a kid and continues to throughout the rest of his life even though it's not something that he's very accepting of. And in this way she is also, um-- She's not only expressing creativity, but she's also expressing a really important part of their culture that she wants to share with Jack. And so, just recognizing the power of art and how you can use that to convey creativity, to convey identity, and how powerful that can be when you share it with others.
KIMBERLY: Yeah, so, both Elena and Karissa have brought up really good points about things that we observed during this text and I just think it's really important and interesting to point out about the sort of societal aspects of this story. The fact that the mother basically volunteered to be a part of this catalog where you're sold [quote-on-quote] to "white men who are wanting a wife" and she did so because she was running away from unfavorable circumstances and that is a-- An occurrence that happens in a lot of other countries and, um, it is a difficult situation to talk about especially in today's context and-and- in academic setting we don't want to ever ignore it or, uh, diminish it. We also want to point out that the work that we do at the Writing Center and how the sort of-- The story connects to it is that we want to support and understanding that multilingualism is normal and to support multilingual writers to use all the linguistic resources available to them and not just in English. Something that, you know, we discussed about was the idea of publishing in not solely English or publishing in other languages and have it still be considered credible and legitimate because it's not about what language the text is written in but rather the context and the content that the text gives. So, we-- We at the Writing Center, uh, value world Englishes and we work with a realistic acceptance of multiliteracies and we just want to emphasize that because I think in reading this there was a lot of, um, multilingualism implications and we just wanted to point that out. And we also, at the Writing Center, come from different cultures and linguistic backgrounds as well, and so we appreciate the richness that these linguistic resources bring and the navigation work, uh, that writers do to claim their authentic identity and writing. We may be in a setting where English is sort of expected in terms of our texts but that doesn't mean you should never not write in the language that you are comfortable with. It is merely just [stammers] an additive, uh, to your repertoire of-- Of the languages you can communicate in. And I think at the end of the day it's all about just being able to give out your thoughts and let the world know what exactly it is about your opinions and your feelings and your beliefs. So, that's just something that, uh, we wanted to throw out there and have you guys think about in the back of your minds as you read this story.
So, the next thing that we wanted to do, uh, was talk about, obviously, the characters in this story because I think they hold a lot of depth and weight, uh, to what makes up the story. So, obviously, we've got Jack, we've got the mom, we've got the dad, and we've got some of the sort of side characters like, uh, Mark and the neighbor ladies that came in, uh, about halfway through the story. So, uh, we wanted to open up for all of us to talk about, sort of, their role and what kind of relationships they hold with the other characters in the story.
ELENA: Yeah, I think the dad is a really interesting character because he's very-- I think when you're reading the story he comes across as very passive, but it's, like, kind of a passive force of assimilation, I think. Because he ultimately is one of the forces that is, uh, telling the mom that she should be speaking English and I think maybe he has [quote] "good intentions" [end quote] but what that actually means-- Like that doesn't actually mean much when the effect is to create this separation between the mom and her son. And I think that that is the character that the dad represents is something that I think thankfully we're moving away from a little bit but I think has had so much of an effect in the U.S. especially-- Especially-- I think especially relevant in academic institutions, like, sort of passive aggressively telling people, like, what the right kind of English is, right? Yeah, just sort subtly, like, degrading other languages by association because English is held to be this language that's, like, the go-to for writing in academia. And I think just-- Yeah, that-- He's not there much in the story, but when he is there, it's sort of just, like, subtly pushing the mom and son away from each other.
KARISSA: Yeah, I thought that dynamic was super interesting because, like you said, um, he-- The dad seemed to be, like, a really passive character that was, like, sort of leading the mother towards assimilation. And I think that's, like, a perfect description but I also thought that it was very interesting that when Jack started to show that resentment towards his mom for being so different, the dad kinda stepped in and was, like, "You shouldn't treat your mom like this," like, "you should-- You should be treating her better," like, "you shouldn't say the things that you say to her so harshly". And I thought that was interesting because although he was, like, kind of acting as this force pushing them towards assimilation, in a lot of ways, for Jack, he was still, like, "You have to embrace this" in a way. So, I thought, like, that tension was really interesting and also, like, kind of confusing. So, I can only imagine how confusing that would be for Jack as a child to, like, live in that situation where he's seeing that he should assimilate, but also kind of getting reprimanded for so harshly doing that. And so quickly, like, losing, um, touch with his heritage and that relationship with his mom. So, yeah, that was something that I was thinking about a lot and just sitting with a lot of confusion about that relationship and what kind of-- The dad's goal was with that. You know? Like, what did he want this family to look like, in the context of where they were living and what they were doing?
KIMBERLY: I think it's really, uh-- I really-- I-I really liked the, um-- not saying I like the character of the dad, but I think that-- It definitely-- This conver-- What you guys have said so far got me thinking about the, uh, sort of different ways each character feels guilt. 'Cause I feel, like, that's sort of, uh, uh, a recurring theme. Because I thought it was really interesting that the dad at first was, like, "Oh you need to--" like he said to the mom he said, "You knew this was going to happen, you're gonna have to start speaking English because you're in America" and all that stuff. And then all of a sudden was just, like, "Oh, Jack you can't shout at your mom like that," you know, "You need to treat her better". Which, like, I-- Maybe the circumstances are different, but I wonder if there was some sort of underlying, like, guilt that he felt as Jack grew older when he realizes that, "Oh--" Like, he-- The dad grew appreciative of, you know, of the multicultural space that they were living in because the mom was there. Uh, and because Jack is a product of both of them, you know? You-you can't really shy away from being biracial because you have these identities ingrained in you, basically. And so, I-- And-and in thinking of, like, Jack's, um, guilt, whether he feels guilt, question mark? Like, at the very end, he just-- He picked up the, uh-- He wrote the le-- The character- for-- Character for "love" in Chinese, but, like, he walks away with the tiger, and there's-- There's nothing after that. So, you're just sort of, like [confused grunts] Any, like, tear? Any sadness? Any, like-- Anything else? Which, I'm sure is-is-is-is-- The ending itself is very moving and very powerful, but it's-- It just leaves you with an open-ended question, of, like, what do you think Jack feels? And especially with the mom's guilt, that really-- that part really got me. I think that's when I started crying was when she started, you know-- When she sees-- Talking to Jack as a whole, just because, she, you know, couldn't-- There was no way to communicate with him 'cause he set up those barriers for, uh, between her and him. So, yeah, that was just something I thought about.
ELENA: Yeah, I think that the question of "Does he feel guilt?" at the end is really interesting because I'm not sure I read it as him feeling guilt, but I think a really important thing that he does-- Kind of come to at the end of the story is, like, the letter that his mom wrote to him seemed to be asking him mainly to, like, remember her. And I think there is a sense of that at the end of the story. And throughout the story the importance of, like, remembering your loved ones and also remembering, like, the-- The gifts that they bring to you as they're raising you, like, whether that's language or art with origami figures. So, I think that that was a really powerful theme for me and also one of the things that made me cry throughout because it's just-- I think it's really - especially in, like, assimilative cultures - it's really hard to have that remembrance if you're being, like, pressured to not teach your kids the language or, like, not speak to them in your native language. I think it makes the importance of remembrance that much more powerful.
KARISSA: My first answer when you were, like, "Does he feel guilt?" I was like, "Yeah, he feels guilt!" But, like, that's 'cause I feel guilt. I-- If I think I was in that position I would just feel really guilty and in a lot of instances, in my everyday life, I still do just for feeling incredibly out of touch with my own culture. But I think kind of like what Elena was saying - that idea of remembrance and, like, there's a sense of acceptance at the end I think that we get from Jack just because he was-- He was so against ever having anything to do with, um, the origami and things like that and I think that last moment of the tiger just kind of, like, cuddling up to him and then they walk home together is just, like, a very comforting image to have in the sense that if the tiger is representing, um, this cultural aspect of his identity and he is, like, embracing that and he's taking that home with him, I think that that in that sense it's a pretty powerful ending just with that idea of-- Or the possibility of that acceptance that wasn't there before. So, not so much a question of, like, guilt, but, like, acceptance and kind of understanding "this is my identity it's not something that I can just, like, carve out and put to the side - it has to be, like, a part of me" and it's worth addressing whether, you know, he acts on that or not. Whether he chooses to, like, 100% embrace that culture and you know, re-learn Chinese, and continue to read letters that his mom wrote him and all the other origami or whether he-- It's just something that he accepts and he, like, carries with him.
KIMBERLY: Yeah, I mean, I think you guys brought up really great points. Like, Elena's, uh, ide-- Your statement about remembrance and the emphasis on that I guess was really-- Uh, I didn't even think about that I think I was just going at it at a very in-- Instinctive level. Like, when I read it, like what Karissa said, like, I definitely felt guilt just because I'm thinking about my own identity and my own culture and how, like, I feel a sense of guilt because I relate so much to how Jack behaves and his attitude towards his-his, uh, heritage. But yeah, I mean, I-- I think-- I mean Elena you put it so beautifully and-and Karissa too, like, the idea of remembrance and the passing down of-of-- Something that you know uh-uh- Frances said back in our "Creative Writing" episode about language as an art and I-I think yeah, like, you guys said this-this story really puts emphasis on that and is more so about what we do with our identity rather than mourning what we've lost. I really tried to be philosophical there, but I-- [Laughs] The idea being that, like, you know, it's-- There's a time for assessment and time for acknowledging what has happened thus far in Jack's life and then letting him use that and-and take control of what happens after. Like, maybe he doesn't feel guilt, per se, or complete guilt, but I think there is that sense of acceptance and, um, you know, sense of his own next steps after reading the letter from his mom. I think I said that right, you know, I was never good at these analytic discussions and that's why I can't be an English major [Laughs]. Yeah! But, um, so in-- In lieu of that, definitely a lot of-- We can talk a lot about, uh, Jack and the mom and the dad, but I also put in the, uh, the characters of Mark and the neighbor ladies 'cause I just felt that they - even though they're, like, side characters and they're not really mentioned for, like, the rest of the story and are only brief - I think they're important and I-- I just-- It makes you angry when you read it obviously 'cause you're just, like, "Why would you ever react like that?" But, like, that is a reality that is apparent all over the U.S. and I just-- I personally, before we get into this, I just personally love the little Star Wars thing because the author himself wrote, like, "The Legend of Luke Skywalker" and if that isn't, like, the most nerdy thing that you could write into magical realism, then I don't know what! Um, but I just thought the characters - those two, particularly - I think they, uh, do have a role in this story and I just want to know what you guys are thinking about that.
ELENA: I think it's-- I think it-- Well, the story takes place in Connecticut, I think, which is obviously a very different kind of-- Like, the east coast in New England is its own world, honestly, it's weird. But [Laughs] I think that it's a very insular culture - a very white culture as well. But, um-- Not to say that Seattle is not also very white, but I think that it's again kind of going back to, like, the passive-aggressive, or outright aggressive in Mark's case because he's just, like, a mean little kid, behavior of, like, assimilation and this pressure to, kind of, like, I guess call out things that are different and-- Or people that are different and to just kind of have this air of superiority about it because that's really the impression I got from the neighbor ladies who are only there for, like, a hot second, but the way that they are described is, just, like, standing in silence with his mom (Jack's mom), uh, and just, like, nodding and smiling at each other instead of, you know, maybe attempting to even get to know each other's names. It is this really-- I don't know it's really disturbing to read because I think it's really familiar. And I think it's something that people don't like to acknowledge that it exists because again, it's not this, like, outright aggression, but I think that almost makes it worse because it's so, like, subtle and insidious, almost, um, yeah, so that was kind of my impression on them. [Laughs]
KARISSA: Yeah, I think that, like, initial assumption, um, from the neighbor ladies just of, like-- When they were talking about, "Oh well the mom doesn't speak a lot of English, so, like, we can't even talk to her" like just saying the things they said in front of Jack because they, you know, they assume that he didn't know English very well either. Um, and I think that, like, you said it's very familiar and, like, that assumption is a very real thing and it's just-- It's really really hard to read something like that and then have-- Have that connection to reality. And then get the other side of it, in many cases, of, you know, how that affected Jack and how that affected his mom, and things like that and-- Like, Mark as well - that was just so hard to read 'cause they're kids! They-re-They're so young like-- Where did this come from?! They're so little that shouldn't be, you know, a topic of discussion, you would think, when you have your neighbors over to play. Yeah, that just made me think about the ways that impacted Jack as a kid. So, when he was in-- I don't remember how old it said he was in the story, but he would come home and he would get really frustrated-- When he started to get frustrated 'cause his mom would speak in Chinese or they didn't eat, like, quote-on-quote "American food" like everyone else at school did and there's a part of me that, like, really really hurts for his mom because it doesn't matter, like, what age you are that is incredibly hard to hear a child, a family member, a relative, kind of, like, denounce their culture in that way. But then there's also part of me that is saying, like, he's just a kid. Does he even really understand, like, the weight of what he's saying or, like, the implications that has when he comes home and he says those things to his mom? And I just think, like, that dynamic between the mom assimilating and Jack assimilating, just, like, how rapid Jack is trying to become, you know, quote-on-quote "American" and be like his friends and assimilate to that culture. Like, he's just so ready, he's so eager 'cause he wants to be like everyone else and then ha-- Having the mom be, like, that resistance? And it's a little bit different because she did grow up in China and she had that experience that's a little bit different from Jack, but just that dynamic between generations, like first-generation immigrant, second-generation immigrant, and how, like, that process of assimilation just continues to seem like it's speeding up. And how, like, that's-that's kind of alarming and how if he wouldn't have had that experience where he found his mom's note, you know, would that process have continued to speed up with his children and just kind of, like, having that trickle down effect of rapidly kind of just denouncing your culture and assimilating, but because it started so young, did he really understand what was happening?
KIMBERLY: Let me just say that kids are ruthless, like-- [Laughs] Growing up, it was not fun. I definitely had my fair share of, like, kids pointing fingers at me because I was different from them. And you know I-I, like, was confused. I didn't realize that, like-- I think-- I don't know. From my own-- From my own personal experience, I didn't really know what race was. I think I just kind of accepted that I looked different from other people and I just-- Like, I knew that I was Asian American, but I didn't know what that meant for me. And I know that, like, what I really enjoyed about this is the whole identity aspect of, like-- Like whether you accept it or deny it or-- The whole, like, process of what is being a certain race or ethnic group mean to you. And obviously times are a lot different now. I think there's a lot-- A lot more, like, pride within racial groups. And I think there's a lot more, uh, positive messages and reinforcements and social media and in the media, but there's still a lot of, like-- There's a lot of discrimination. There's still a lot of racism. There's still a lot of "Mark's" and "neighbor ladies" out there - for lack of better terms - but. like, you know, it's just so-- It's just so disheartening to see how children especially-- And, like, you grow into that if-if you're not forced out of it, you know. And I think that goes into the message of, like, "hate isn't--" What is it? "Hate is taught, evil--" I can't remember. I think it's like "hate is taught" or, like, "evil is taught" or something that-- Basically saying, that, like-- [Laughs] For a person to, like, have negative feelings towards another individual that it has to-- You have to be taught why you should dislike that individual. And so-- And I'm not saying that we need to get into, like, what backstory do Mark and the neigh-- "neighbor ladies" have but, like, I mean it's in Connecticut, it's-it's in-- Oh, like the late 90's? Late 80's? Of … I can't remember. But whatever time period it is and whatever location it is, it has, uh, definitely a bit of an influence on how these characters, uh, behave and attitudes. And I think the author did that on purpose because it's a reality. And, uh, yeah, so-- Wow, this story got me wildin' [Laughs]. Uh, is there anything else that you guys want to, uh, bring up about the story as a whole before we wrap things up?
KARISSA: I found the quote you were talking about.
KIMBERLY: Thank you [Laughs].
KARISSA: And I think it's really powerful. Would you like me to read it?
KIMBERLY: Yes please.
KARISSA: [Laughs] Okay, so it's from Nelson Mandela. And it says, "No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion. People must learn to hate and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love. For love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite."
KIMBERLY: Thank you [Laughs] There was also another quote by, like, Martin Luther King about hate or, like, evil.
KARISSA: I'm on it.
KIMBERLY: Hello we are doing research right now and pulling up our quotes [Laughs].
ELENA: I'm so sorry I've turned them all into English majors.
[Laughter]
KIMBERLY: I'd like to give a shout out to my partner, uh, who is an English major and I'm sure, uh, is getting a kick out of this episode [Laughs]. I think we should put a little Jeopardy music right here, but, like, a really sped up Jeopardy music. And then-- [Laughs]
KARISSA: So, we don't get copyrighted?
KIMBERLY: Yeah [Laughs].
KARISSA: I can't find it. There's a lot.
KIMBERLY: I feel like-- It's-- It's not that important, but I just feel, like, there was a quote from Martin Luther King as well about, like-- About hate and love-- [Laughs]
KARISSA: Oh! Is it, "Hate is too great a burden to bear"?
KIMBERLY: No--
KARISSA: That's like the only one I've been finding--
KIMBERLY: That's okay I might've-- I might've just misquoted him--
KARISSA: [unintelligible]
[Laughter]
KIMBERLY: Thank you all so much for joining us, we hope that you'll get the chance to read this, uh, beautiful short story because we've definitely cried reading it. Uh, I will not emphasize this enough. We cried [Laughs] reading this. And, uh, we also want to thank all of you for a wonderful first season of the podcast.
ELENA: This has been a work in progress but a work that has sparked so much joy and fun for all of us at the Writing Center and we hope that it brought you a smile on your face during this time. We will be going into a hiatus for the summer, but we will be back and ready as ever for Fall for season 2!
KARISSA: Thank you all so much, we could not have continued the podcast without your support. As always, check out our blog at suwritingcenter.weebly.com and if you have ideas for future episodes please email us at [email protected] or if you have any additional commentary on our discussion about this short story, if you want to share what you thought, tell us what made you cry, we'd love that. Thank you for--
KIMBERLY: Tag us at, uh, SUWritingCenter on Instagram? [Laughs]
KARISSA: Yes! Oh my gosh, the Instagram! Follow us--
KIMBERLY: I didn't even think about that. Yeah, follow us and then tag us! Uh, about what you thought, about the story, because we want to hear your thoughts!
KARISSA: Thank you for listening and this has been…
EVERYONE: Hoo's… Hoo's at the Writing Center!
[Laughter]
KIMBERLY: All right, we'll talk to you later everybody. Thank you!
KARISSA: Have a good summer!
ELENA: Bye!
[OUTRO MUSIC PLAYS]
KIMBERLY: Hello! And welcome to Hoo's At The Writing Center! I'm Kimberly
ELENA: I'm Elena
KARISSA: And I'm Karissa
KIMBERLY: And happy dead week! [Laughs] Uh, since this week can be stressful for a lot of students - including us - uh, we wanted to do something fun and refreshing to give listeners a break from all their studying and paper writing. Uh, so, today, we wanted to talk about a short story, the Paper Menagerie, by Ken Liu. Liu was born in - I'm going to butcher this, so, please, uh, excuse me - Lanzhou, China in 1976. He typically writes in the genre of science-fiction and fantasy. Uh, his other notable works are The Dandelion Dynasty, The Legends of Luke Skywalker, and other short stories like Memories of My Mother and Real Artists. He also participates in a lot of translating work, specifically in Chinese. And has won multiple Hugo Awards. So, there's a link in the episode description if you want to read the story first, which we highly recommend, it's a quick read although fair warning, you might cry a little – I have definitely cried a lot [Laughs] -- um, but for those of you who haven’t read the story, here is a quick summary.
KARISSA: The story starts with the main character, Jack, recalling a memory of his mother. They were sitting together at the kitchen table and Jack was inconsolable and sobbing and really upset about something he can't remember. His mother started to fold old paper into the shape of a tiger, and when she breathed into it, the tiger came to life. Jack was infatuated, and no longer sad, he played with the tiger who became his companion throughout his childhood.
During his childhood, Jack’s mother continued to make him all kinds of animals. They all came to life and played together. However, Jack’s family soon moved to Connecticut, and as Jack got older, it became apparent to him that he was different. None of the other kids looks like him or knew how to speak Chinese like he did. They all had action figures instead of origami to play with and they ate [quote-on-quote] “American food.” Jack started to resent his mother for making him so different. He stopped speaking to her in Chinese and refused to respond to her unless she addressed him in English. He stopped playing with the origami animals that she had made for him.
ELENA: When Jack is in college his mother gets very sick. They tell him that her cancer is beyond any sort of recovery. When visiting her in the hospital, the only thing Jack can think about is returning to school and getting on with his life. Before he leaves, his mother asks one thing: for him to take out the paper animals every year on Qingming, a Chinese Festival for the dead. She died while he was on his flight back to school.
Two years after his mother’s death, on the day of the Qingming festival, Jack thinks of his mother and witnesses his old origami tiger come to life again. The tiger unravels himself to reveal a letter in Chinese written by his mother. He finds someone to translate it, and discovers the story of his mother; how she came to America, and the joy that she felt when he was born. She wrote about her sadness that he did not love his eyes, or his hair, or his heritage, which were all things she had given to him.
The story ends with Jack writing the Chinese character for love, ai, over and over again below her letter before refolding his tiger and bringing it back to life using the creases his mother made to guide him.
KIMBERLY: So, that was just a short summary, but, of course, we can't do the actual text justice, so, we highly encourage you, uh, to read the actual text in the episode description, uh, to read the whole thing. So, the next thing we wanted to do was actually open up a conversation between all three of us since we all got a chance to read it. We actually-- Karissa and I were introduced to this story by Elena and, uh-- So, we didn't have a lot of background information about it, but it was an incredibly moving story and we wanted to open up a discussion just to talk about the sort of themes, and symbols, and messages, and the sort of implications that came with this, uh, story. So, the first thing that we wanted to talk about was, uh, magical realism that Elena brought up.
ELENA: Yeah, so, I just wanted to give a little bit of a background on the genre of this story, which is magical realism. Um, and not to get too English major-y with it, but the story is a really great example of magical realism, which is one of my favorite - and I think not very popularly well-known - genres. Um, we can see here with the origami animals that Jack’s mom makes him and breathes life into. So, magical realism, as described by one of my favorite authors, Isabel Allende, "is a way of seeing in which there is space for the invisible forces that move the world: dreams, legends, myths, emotions, passion, history.” This genre has been embraced particularly by African, Asian, and Latin American literature – just to name a few – and is powerful in that it challenges dominant narratives about how we see the world and ourselves. It also allows for expressions of tradition, collective memory and trauma, as well as collective healing, through storytelling. And another really interesting way that this is expressed through the text is how the text kind of engages with language and the power of multilingualism and different languages and different ways that we can express ourselves through those languages. So, a quote that I found really powerful in the story was when the main character's mom is talking about why it's difficult for her to speak English, not just, like, because the language is hard to learn, but because of something, like, fundamental about how she's expressing herself. She says, "If I say ‘love,’ I feel here.” She pointed to her lips. “If I say ‘ai,’ I feel here.” She put her hand over her heart." And so, I think it's just really-- A really cool story in terms of looking at how the power of language and multilingualism is a medium for connection in different contexts. And what it means to feel a language on your lips versus in your heart and how Liu, the author, is using language and language barriers between loved ones to deepen the impact of this story. And another, um, way that we see this in a lot of stories today is that, particularly, like, Chicano writers, like, Gloria Anzaldua, will write in English and Spanish in their stories, which has a really powerful effect for readers, especially for readers who can read both.
KARISSA: We also wanted to talk about, um, the connection through art that is really relevant in this story and how it pertains to our current situation to now. A couple weeks ago we had an episode about creative writing and that was a really good conversation just to have and it really connected us in ways that we hadn't expected. Um, so similarly in this story, Jack's mom uses the art of origami to really connect with him as a kid and continues to throughout the rest of his life even though it's not something that he's very accepting of. And in this way she is also, um-- She's not only expressing creativity, but she's also expressing a really important part of their culture that she wants to share with Jack. And so, just recognizing the power of art and how you can use that to convey creativity, to convey identity, and how powerful that can be when you share it with others.
KIMBERLY: Yeah, so, both Elena and Karissa have brought up really good points about things that we observed during this text and I just think it's really important and interesting to point out about the sort of societal aspects of this story. The fact that the mother basically volunteered to be a part of this catalog where you're sold [quote-on-quote] to "white men who are wanting a wife" and she did so because she was running away from unfavorable circumstances and that is a-- An occurrence that happens in a lot of other countries and, um, it is a difficult situation to talk about especially in today's context and-and- in academic setting we don't want to ever ignore it or, uh, diminish it. We also want to point out that the work that we do at the Writing Center and how the sort of-- The story connects to it is that we want to support and understanding that multilingualism is normal and to support multilingual writers to use all the linguistic resources available to them and not just in English. Something that, you know, we discussed about was the idea of publishing in not solely English or publishing in other languages and have it still be considered credible and legitimate because it's not about what language the text is written in but rather the context and the content that the text gives. So, we-- We at the Writing Center, uh, value world Englishes and we work with a realistic acceptance of multiliteracies and we just want to emphasize that because I think in reading this there was a lot of, um, multilingualism implications and we just wanted to point that out. And we also, at the Writing Center, come from different cultures and linguistic backgrounds as well, and so we appreciate the richness that these linguistic resources bring and the navigation work, uh, that writers do to claim their authentic identity and writing. We may be in a setting where English is sort of expected in terms of our texts but that doesn't mean you should never not write in the language that you are comfortable with. It is merely just [stammers] an additive, uh, to your repertoire of-- Of the languages you can communicate in. And I think at the end of the day it's all about just being able to give out your thoughts and let the world know what exactly it is about your opinions and your feelings and your beliefs. So, that's just something that, uh, we wanted to throw out there and have you guys think about in the back of your minds as you read this story.
So, the next thing that we wanted to do, uh, was talk about, obviously, the characters in this story because I think they hold a lot of depth and weight, uh, to what makes up the story. So, obviously, we've got Jack, we've got the mom, we've got the dad, and we've got some of the sort of side characters like, uh, Mark and the neighbor ladies that came in, uh, about halfway through the story. So, uh, we wanted to open up for all of us to talk about, sort of, their role and what kind of relationships they hold with the other characters in the story.
ELENA: Yeah, I think the dad is a really interesting character because he's very-- I think when you're reading the story he comes across as very passive, but it's, like, kind of a passive force of assimilation, I think. Because he ultimately is one of the forces that is, uh, telling the mom that she should be speaking English and I think maybe he has [quote] "good intentions" [end quote] but what that actually means-- Like that doesn't actually mean much when the effect is to create this separation between the mom and her son. And I think that that is the character that the dad represents is something that I think thankfully we're moving away from a little bit but I think has had so much of an effect in the U.S. especially-- Especially-- I think especially relevant in academic institutions, like, sort of passive aggressively telling people, like, what the right kind of English is, right? Yeah, just sort subtly, like, degrading other languages by association because English is held to be this language that's, like, the go-to for writing in academia. And I think just-- Yeah, that-- He's not there much in the story, but when he is there, it's sort of just, like, subtly pushing the mom and son away from each other.
KARISSA: Yeah, I thought that dynamic was super interesting because, like you said, um, he-- The dad seemed to be, like, a really passive character that was, like, sort of leading the mother towards assimilation. And I think that's, like, a perfect description but I also thought that it was very interesting that when Jack started to show that resentment towards his mom for being so different, the dad kinda stepped in and was, like, "You shouldn't treat your mom like this," like, "you should-- You should be treating her better," like, "you shouldn't say the things that you say to her so harshly". And I thought that was interesting because although he was, like, kind of acting as this force pushing them towards assimilation, in a lot of ways, for Jack, he was still, like, "You have to embrace this" in a way. So, I thought, like, that tension was really interesting and also, like, kind of confusing. So, I can only imagine how confusing that would be for Jack as a child to, like, live in that situation where he's seeing that he should assimilate, but also kind of getting reprimanded for so harshly doing that. And so quickly, like, losing, um, touch with his heritage and that relationship with his mom. So, yeah, that was something that I was thinking about a lot and just sitting with a lot of confusion about that relationship and what kind of-- The dad's goal was with that. You know? Like, what did he want this family to look like, in the context of where they were living and what they were doing?
KIMBERLY: I think it's really, uh-- I really-- I-I really liked the, um-- not saying I like the character of the dad, but I think that-- It definitely-- This conver-- What you guys have said so far got me thinking about the, uh, sort of different ways each character feels guilt. 'Cause I feel, like, that's sort of, uh, uh, a recurring theme. Because I thought it was really interesting that the dad at first was, like, "Oh you need to--" like he said to the mom he said, "You knew this was going to happen, you're gonna have to start speaking English because you're in America" and all that stuff. And then all of a sudden was just, like, "Oh, Jack you can't shout at your mom like that," you know, "You need to treat her better". Which, like, I-- Maybe the circumstances are different, but I wonder if there was some sort of underlying, like, guilt that he felt as Jack grew older when he realizes that, "Oh--" Like, he-- The dad grew appreciative of, you know, of the multicultural space that they were living in because the mom was there. Uh, and because Jack is a product of both of them, you know? You-you can't really shy away from being biracial because you have these identities ingrained in you, basically. And so, I-- And-and in thinking of, like, Jack's, um, guilt, whether he feels guilt, question mark? Like, at the very end, he just-- He picked up the, uh-- He wrote the le-- The character- for-- Character for "love" in Chinese, but, like, he walks away with the tiger, and there's-- There's nothing after that. So, you're just sort of, like [confused grunts] Any, like, tear? Any sadness? Any, like-- Anything else? Which, I'm sure is-is-is-is-- The ending itself is very moving and very powerful, but it's-- It just leaves you with an open-ended question, of, like, what do you think Jack feels? And especially with the mom's guilt, that really-- that part really got me. I think that's when I started crying was when she started, you know-- When she sees-- Talking to Jack as a whole, just because, she, you know, couldn't-- There was no way to communicate with him 'cause he set up those barriers for, uh, between her and him. So, yeah, that was just something I thought about.
ELENA: Yeah, I think that the question of "Does he feel guilt?" at the end is really interesting because I'm not sure I read it as him feeling guilt, but I think a really important thing that he does-- Kind of come to at the end of the story is, like, the letter that his mom wrote to him seemed to be asking him mainly to, like, remember her. And I think there is a sense of that at the end of the story. And throughout the story the importance of, like, remembering your loved ones and also remembering, like, the-- The gifts that they bring to you as they're raising you, like, whether that's language or art with origami figures. So, I think that that was a really powerful theme for me and also one of the things that made me cry throughout because it's just-- I think it's really - especially in, like, assimilative cultures - it's really hard to have that remembrance if you're being, like, pressured to not teach your kids the language or, like, not speak to them in your native language. I think it makes the importance of remembrance that much more powerful.
KARISSA: My first answer when you were, like, "Does he feel guilt?" I was like, "Yeah, he feels guilt!" But, like, that's 'cause I feel guilt. I-- If I think I was in that position I would just feel really guilty and in a lot of instances, in my everyday life, I still do just for feeling incredibly out of touch with my own culture. But I think kind of like what Elena was saying - that idea of remembrance and, like, there's a sense of acceptance at the end I think that we get from Jack just because he was-- He was so against ever having anything to do with, um, the origami and things like that and I think that last moment of the tiger just kind of, like, cuddling up to him and then they walk home together is just, like, a very comforting image to have in the sense that if the tiger is representing, um, this cultural aspect of his identity and he is, like, embracing that and he's taking that home with him, I think that that in that sense it's a pretty powerful ending just with that idea of-- Or the possibility of that acceptance that wasn't there before. So, not so much a question of, like, guilt, but, like, acceptance and kind of understanding "this is my identity it's not something that I can just, like, carve out and put to the side - it has to be, like, a part of me" and it's worth addressing whether, you know, he acts on that or not. Whether he chooses to, like, 100% embrace that culture and you know, re-learn Chinese, and continue to read letters that his mom wrote him and all the other origami or whether he-- It's just something that he accepts and he, like, carries with him.
KIMBERLY: Yeah, I mean, I think you guys brought up really great points. Like, Elena's, uh, ide-- Your statement about remembrance and the emphasis on that I guess was really-- Uh, I didn't even think about that I think I was just going at it at a very in-- Instinctive level. Like, when I read it, like what Karissa said, like, I definitely felt guilt just because I'm thinking about my own identity and my own culture and how, like, I feel a sense of guilt because I relate so much to how Jack behaves and his attitude towards his-his, uh, heritage. But yeah, I mean, I-- I think-- I mean Elena you put it so beautifully and-and Karissa too, like, the idea of remembrance and the passing down of-of-- Something that you know uh-uh- Frances said back in our "Creative Writing" episode about language as an art and I-I think yeah, like, you guys said this-this story really puts emphasis on that and is more so about what we do with our identity rather than mourning what we've lost. I really tried to be philosophical there, but I-- [Laughs] The idea being that, like, you know, it's-- There's a time for assessment and time for acknowledging what has happened thus far in Jack's life and then letting him use that and-and take control of what happens after. Like, maybe he doesn't feel guilt, per se, or complete guilt, but I think there is that sense of acceptance and, um, you know, sense of his own next steps after reading the letter from his mom. I think I said that right, you know, I was never good at these analytic discussions and that's why I can't be an English major [Laughs]. Yeah! But, um, so in-- In lieu of that, definitely a lot of-- We can talk a lot about, uh, Jack and the mom and the dad, but I also put in the, uh, the characters of Mark and the neighbor ladies 'cause I just felt that they - even though they're, like, side characters and they're not really mentioned for, like, the rest of the story and are only brief - I think they're important and I-- I just-- It makes you angry when you read it obviously 'cause you're just, like, "Why would you ever react like that?" But, like, that is a reality that is apparent all over the U.S. and I just-- I personally, before we get into this, I just personally love the little Star Wars thing because the author himself wrote, like, "The Legend of Luke Skywalker" and if that isn't, like, the most nerdy thing that you could write into magical realism, then I don't know what! Um, but I just thought the characters - those two, particularly - I think they, uh, do have a role in this story and I just want to know what you guys are thinking about that.
ELENA: I think it's-- I think it-- Well, the story takes place in Connecticut, I think, which is obviously a very different kind of-- Like, the east coast in New England is its own world, honestly, it's weird. But [Laughs] I think that it's a very insular culture - a very white culture as well. But, um-- Not to say that Seattle is not also very white, but I think that it's again kind of going back to, like, the passive-aggressive, or outright aggressive in Mark's case because he's just, like, a mean little kid, behavior of, like, assimilation and this pressure to, kind of, like, I guess call out things that are different and-- Or people that are different and to just kind of have this air of superiority about it because that's really the impression I got from the neighbor ladies who are only there for, like, a hot second, but the way that they are described is, just, like, standing in silence with his mom (Jack's mom), uh, and just, like, nodding and smiling at each other instead of, you know, maybe attempting to even get to know each other's names. It is this really-- I don't know it's really disturbing to read because I think it's really familiar. And I think it's something that people don't like to acknowledge that it exists because again, it's not this, like, outright aggression, but I think that almost makes it worse because it's so, like, subtle and insidious, almost, um, yeah, so that was kind of my impression on them. [Laughs]
KARISSA: Yeah, I think that, like, initial assumption, um, from the neighbor ladies just of, like-- When they were talking about, "Oh well the mom doesn't speak a lot of English, so, like, we can't even talk to her" like just saying the things they said in front of Jack because they, you know, they assume that he didn't know English very well either. Um, and I think that, like, you said it's very familiar and, like, that assumption is a very real thing and it's just-- It's really really hard to read something like that and then have-- Have that connection to reality. And then get the other side of it, in many cases, of, you know, how that affected Jack and how that affected his mom, and things like that and-- Like, Mark as well - that was just so hard to read 'cause they're kids! They-re-They're so young like-- Where did this come from?! They're so little that shouldn't be, you know, a topic of discussion, you would think, when you have your neighbors over to play. Yeah, that just made me think about the ways that impacted Jack as a kid. So, when he was in-- I don't remember how old it said he was in the story, but he would come home and he would get really frustrated-- When he started to get frustrated 'cause his mom would speak in Chinese or they didn't eat, like, quote-on-quote "American food" like everyone else at school did and there's a part of me that, like, really really hurts for his mom because it doesn't matter, like, what age you are that is incredibly hard to hear a child, a family member, a relative, kind of, like, denounce their culture in that way. But then there's also part of me that is saying, like, he's just a kid. Does he even really understand, like, the weight of what he's saying or, like, the implications that has when he comes home and he says those things to his mom? And I just think, like, that dynamic between the mom assimilating and Jack assimilating, just, like, how rapid Jack is trying to become, you know, quote-on-quote "American" and be like his friends and assimilate to that culture. Like, he's just so ready, he's so eager 'cause he wants to be like everyone else and then ha-- Having the mom be, like, that resistance? And it's a little bit different because she did grow up in China and she had that experience that's a little bit different from Jack, but just that dynamic between generations, like first-generation immigrant, second-generation immigrant, and how, like, that process of assimilation just continues to seem like it's speeding up. And how, like, that's-that's kind of alarming and how if he wouldn't have had that experience where he found his mom's note, you know, would that process have continued to speed up with his children and just kind of, like, having that trickle down effect of rapidly kind of just denouncing your culture and assimilating, but because it started so young, did he really understand what was happening?
KIMBERLY: Let me just say that kids are ruthless, like-- [Laughs] Growing up, it was not fun. I definitely had my fair share of, like, kids pointing fingers at me because I was different from them. And you know I-I, like, was confused. I didn't realize that, like-- I think-- I don't know. From my own-- From my own personal experience, I didn't really know what race was. I think I just kind of accepted that I looked different from other people and I just-- Like, I knew that I was Asian American, but I didn't know what that meant for me. And I know that, like, what I really enjoyed about this is the whole identity aspect of, like-- Like whether you accept it or deny it or-- The whole, like, process of what is being a certain race or ethnic group mean to you. And obviously times are a lot different now. I think there's a lot-- A lot more, like, pride within racial groups. And I think there's a lot more, uh, positive messages and reinforcements and social media and in the media, but there's still a lot of, like-- There's a lot of discrimination. There's still a lot of racism. There's still a lot of "Mark's" and "neighbor ladies" out there - for lack of better terms - but. like, you know, it's just so-- It's just so disheartening to see how children especially-- And, like, you grow into that if-if you're not forced out of it, you know. And I think that goes into the message of, like, "hate isn't--" What is it? "Hate is taught, evil--" I can't remember. I think it's like "hate is taught" or, like, "evil is taught" or something that-- Basically saying, that, like-- [Laughs] For a person to, like, have negative feelings towards another individual that it has to-- You have to be taught why you should dislike that individual. And so-- And I'm not saying that we need to get into, like, what backstory do Mark and the neigh-- "neighbor ladies" have but, like, I mean it's in Connecticut, it's-it's in-- Oh, like the late 90's? Late 80's? Of … I can't remember. But whatever time period it is and whatever location it is, it has, uh, definitely a bit of an influence on how these characters, uh, behave and attitudes. And I think the author did that on purpose because it's a reality. And, uh, yeah, so-- Wow, this story got me wildin' [Laughs]. Uh, is there anything else that you guys want to, uh, bring up about the story as a whole before we wrap things up?
KARISSA: I found the quote you were talking about.
KIMBERLY: Thank you [Laughs].
KARISSA: And I think it's really powerful. Would you like me to read it?
KIMBERLY: Yes please.
KARISSA: [Laughs] Okay, so it's from Nelson Mandela. And it says, "No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion. People must learn to hate and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love. For love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite."
KIMBERLY: Thank you [Laughs] There was also another quote by, like, Martin Luther King about hate or, like, evil.
KARISSA: I'm on it.
KIMBERLY: Hello we are doing research right now and pulling up our quotes [Laughs].
ELENA: I'm so sorry I've turned them all into English majors.
[Laughter]
KIMBERLY: I'd like to give a shout out to my partner, uh, who is an English major and I'm sure, uh, is getting a kick out of this episode [Laughs]. I think we should put a little Jeopardy music right here, but, like, a really sped up Jeopardy music. And then-- [Laughs]
KARISSA: So, we don't get copyrighted?
KIMBERLY: Yeah [Laughs].
KARISSA: I can't find it. There's a lot.
KIMBERLY: I feel like-- It's-- It's not that important, but I just feel, like, there was a quote from Martin Luther King as well about, like-- About hate and love-- [Laughs]
KARISSA: Oh! Is it, "Hate is too great a burden to bear"?
KIMBERLY: No--
KARISSA: That's like the only one I've been finding--
KIMBERLY: That's okay I might've-- I might've just misquoted him--
KARISSA: [unintelligible]
[Laughter]
KIMBERLY: Thank you all so much for joining us, we hope that you'll get the chance to read this, uh, beautiful short story because we've definitely cried reading it. Uh, I will not emphasize this enough. We cried [Laughs] reading this. And, uh, we also want to thank all of you for a wonderful first season of the podcast.
ELENA: This has been a work in progress but a work that has sparked so much joy and fun for all of us at the Writing Center and we hope that it brought you a smile on your face during this time. We will be going into a hiatus for the summer, but we will be back and ready as ever for Fall for season 2!
KARISSA: Thank you all so much, we could not have continued the podcast without your support. As always, check out our blog at suwritingcenter.weebly.com and if you have ideas for future episodes please email us at [email protected] or if you have any additional commentary on our discussion about this short story, if you want to share what you thought, tell us what made you cry, we'd love that. Thank you for--
KIMBERLY: Tag us at, uh, SUWritingCenter on Instagram? [Laughs]
KARISSA: Yes! Oh my gosh, the Instagram! Follow us--
KIMBERLY: I didn't even think about that. Yeah, follow us and then tag us! Uh, about what you thought, about the story, because we want to hear your thoughts!
KARISSA: Thank you for listening and this has been…
EVERYONE: Hoo's… Hoo's at the Writing Center!
[Laughter]
KIMBERLY: All right, we'll talk to you later everybody. Thank you!
KARISSA: Have a good summer!
ELENA: Bye!
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